Maggie Thomas in Montserrat

MAGGIE THOMAS & GONG IN MONTSERRAT

Interview by Juanjo Sánchez for lwsn. February 2011.

(Revised and expanded with Maggie T. in August 2024)

Maggie Thomas was part of the English progressive rock band Henry Cow, not as a musician but rather as a roadie, as well as a sound technician for the live shows of the group’s last stage. She was also involved in the artistic side of the band, drawing and designing posters as well as the cover of one of Henry Cow’s albums. Her intervention was decisive in 1977 for the organization of Henry Cow’s Spanish tour, living in Barcelona for long periods, twice in the late 70s. After Henry Cow disbanded, she worked as a live sound engineer the next 20 years on some projects of the band members and she worked even more in the designing of their covers.  After that she worked with many interesting independent bands in Europe, and she became even more involved making album covers for many bands.

Around 1972 she started working in the sound studios of the Virgin Records company, in the The Manor. There she was able to meet some of the most interesting musicians that recorded for Virgin Records such as Mike Oldfield, Bonzo Dog Band, Robert Wyatt, Hatfield and the North, Magma, Faust, Henry Cow and Gong, among others.

But before all this, in 1971 Maggie hit the road travelling through southern Europe and Morocco. On one of them she appeared at the Abbey of Montserrat. There she met the monk Francesc Bofill, who on her recommendation organised two concerts by Daevid Allen and Gong in Montserrat itself and facilitated the organisation of a third in Terrassa, organised by the «Amics del les Arts i les Joventuts Musicals de Terrassa».

After 40 years, not only had the memories of Francesc Bofill not faded from Maggie Thomas’ mind, but she had lived with some concern all these years, wondering whether his mediation in the concerts could have caused some problems for Francesc in his relationship with the abbey. As she said, «it was all obviously a shock.» When she heard from him again, she was relieved. Maggie could rest easy. The community of Montserrat was much more open in those years than she and others could have imagined.

—Talking about your beginnings at Virgin. In the early seventies you started working at the newly created Virgin Records, at The Manor Studio.

Yes, but doing small, unimportant jobs in what was a fantastic place at the time.

—Do you remember when it was exactly?

Yes, I would say it was around September 1972.

—What was your life before The Manor?

My life before? University/college 4 years: I studied architecture, industrial design, an attempt to join IBM («we don’t really take women»), a year and a half on the road around Europe, then London, then the Manor, so not a productive life!

—What was it like to start working at The Manor Studio? What was your job at there?

I thought that I didn’t want to spend my whole life sitting in an office, that wasn’t what I wanted, what I wanted was a dynamic job, to be on the move.  So back then a friend told me about the new studios outside Oxford in the countryside and one day I turned up there and Richard Branson offered me a job as an assistant to the musicians, amongst many, many other things! shopped at the market, served endless cups of tea and fried many breakfasts for the stars! Even, looking after his two ponies. The atmosphere was very good. There were no bosses, and everyone was into their job. I ended up in the right place at the right time. There were 11 people working there at the time, the musicians were here today and gone tomorrow, nothing special. Since the «staff» were happy and efficient, that made the Manor a good place to be. The musicians were never treated as glamorous important people, they were there to work.  But then later came the horrible rock groups who used to order us around and created a bad ambiance.

—Tell me what was so special about The Manor Studio?

The Manor was a large house with an adjoining plot of land full of meadows and trees that which was bought by Richard Branson, the owner of Virgin, with the idea of ​​setting up one of the first residential studios for musicians.

Although it must be said that when it came to music, Richard Branson was not the one who made the decisions. Virgin was owned by three people, not just Wonder Boy. Simon Draper was a partner in Virgin together with Nick Powell. Simon was the one who chose the music. Nick did the shops (and Virgin clothes!). Tom built the studio, ran the Manor and certainly pushed for Simon to take an interest in Mike Oldfield. Tom Newman was in charge of the recording studio and made a stimulating place for everyone. Simon Draper was the one who actually selected the artists for Virgin Records, a great music enthusiast with impeccable taste. He was the one who had to convince Richard that Mike Oldfield should sign for Virgin, something that Richard was not very clear about at that time, Tubullar Bells was not exactly the business idea that Richard had in mind, a long song, without singing, and that you could not dance to… In any case, Virgin’s concept was to fill the gap in the music market for innovative music, not exactly with the concept of commercials, fortunately Virgin was able to get a good catalogue of very interesting bands.

—How did you become part of Henry Cow, what was it that attracted you to leave your job at The Manor and become part of the band, tell me how was your meeting with the band, at The Manor?

Actually, I never really heard Henry Cow until I joined them. I met them in a very particular way when in 1973 they came to record their first album “Legend”. It was just one day that while I was in charge of the ponies and was about to give some horse-riding lessons to Mike Oldfield, the ponies escaped and at that moment the Henry Cows appeared in the meadow. So I helped myself with them to catch the ponies, placing the members of the band strategically throughout the field. By 1974 The Manor was beginning to lose its charm for me, from being a bucolic country mansion it had begun to become a fashionable place, with pink velvet, rather hideous luxurious furniture and other interventions in its interiors of dubious taste, so I began to think about leaving there at the first opportunity I had. By 1974 it was Tim Hodgkinson who suggested that I could be HC’s manager, but this didn’t last long, it wasn’t my area of ​​expertise. So I became a kind of Henry Cow roadie and went on the road with them.

—Although your work at The Manor was not directly related to the recording studio, did the work at the mixing desk appeal to you?

I liked going into the studio, preferably when there was only Tom or Simon, and just sitting there. I had no ambition to be a sound engineer. However, I often couldn’t stay long because I had to do chores in the kitchen.

—Henry Cow’s visit to Barcelona in 1978, at the L’Aliança del Poble Nou concert, was the first time you handled a soundboard, just when your engineer left the band abruptly.

That’s also true. It was in April 1978. In fact, at that time I had stopped being Henry Cow’s roadie and was doing other things. Henry Cow had just finished a tour of Scandinavia and we were in Paris before starting the Spanish part of the 6-concert tour, I think. Georgie and Jack, who were a couple at the time, told us they wanted to leave and quit the group, Lindsay had to leave too for family reasons (poor Lindsay)

I had gone to Paris to travel with HC down to Barcelona and spend the next six months there. But Tim asked me to stay with them and become the sound engineer (I remember thinking: «There goes my stay in Barcelona, back to England, pity») even though I had never done it before, although at least I knew the music very well. So I was still very lucky and stayed on as sound engineer until the end of the band.

— From a very young age I was fascinated by Henry Cow, I’ve always liked their musical integrity and how they worked on sound and their compositions outside of blues and rock and roll, when at the time, it was normal for rock bands to draw from those sources. I’ve also always really appreciated all your artwork with the covers.

Thanks, I only did one for Henry Cow, most were for Art Bears, of course

-When did you first meet Daevid Allen and Gilly Smith, was it when you were in The Manor Studio or was it before, in the days of The Ottawa Music Company?

No, it wasn’t before, but it’s great that you know about The Ottawa Music Company. In fact, it was at The Manor that I met them, when they were recording Flying Teapot. When they arrived at the studio with all their props…. many of the people working there were quite scared, but I said to myself: “these are my kind of people!!” Many of the people at the Manor didn’t know what to make of them because they were weird hippies and they themselves had come from quite different backgrounds. I had learned my hippiedom at university which the anarchic and political form. But Gong weren’t real hippies at all, they were very good musicians and artistes, led by an extraordinary person. Pavillon du Hay was very well organised. We always got along very well, but I was never part of the group.

—Although you did participate in the drawing of the cover of Gong’s Flying Teapot

Yes, that’s right, we painted it between Daevid and I, I went to the Pavillon after Flying Teapot where I helped Daevid with the cover.

—After meeting Gong at The Manor did you join the group in some way or did you stay with them in the UK or France?

I went to stay with them in France in January 1972. I came back to Britain by car with Daevid and Gilli and their baby, can’t remember the name – Orlando? They stayed at Lady June’s, I took Daevid to a discothèque in Kings Road, Chelsea, to meet and hear Mike Howlet play.

—Mike Howlet said that you suggested him that he can join Gong and he can complete the four elements with the other new members of the band.

Yes it’s true. Mike has his own story about joining Gong. Very artistic story! I went with Daevid to the discothèque and the group were already playing since we had arrived late. Then I introduced them, and they started with the Australian schtick, calling each other «cobber» etc. Daevid was from Melbourne, the more Europeanised city and Mike from Sydney, although born in Fiji. They bonded and Mike was in.

—Jordi Fernández, Canti Casanovas and me, have been in contact during the last few days to join forces and document the story of Gong in Montserrat. Jordi has done a good job because it was difficult to locate Francesc Bofill.

I am very happy, since I had given up on Francesc’s contact.

—How was the first meeting with Francesc Bofill, the monk of Montserrat?

I think it was in March 1971. We had heard that Montserrat had a kind of hostel for all the Catholic pilgrim movement-type groups, so we just went and asked. My friend and I thought it was a very nice place and decided to stay for some time. So, we got a communal bedroom full of these strange young people, you can imagine. Our friends, the owners of the car we had travelled in, decided to leave for Morocco. It was in March 1971 because the friend I was there with also claims that it is exactly 40 years ago now. Our stay in Montserrat was the beginning of about six months that we spent travelling, firstly, through Morocco and then through Italy.

—Do you remember what it was like arriving at the abbey and the reaction of the monk who welcomed you?

Yes, the monk who was at the entrance was quite unfriendly, but that was a fairly normal reaction for us then. When you are a hippie, you quickly discover where the good people are because they treat you as what you are, a human being, not as a weirdo. Francesc must have followed us out and then got us accommodation, which was not exactly in the monastery, but in a building with a kind of large room with many beds, obviously used by young Catholics, or people like that, you know. He then made the arrangements so that we could stay there for a few weeks.

– The Montserrat monastery was very important in the dark times of the dictatorship for the defence of freedoms in the recent history of Catalonia.

Yes, I spent a few weeks in the Monastery, thanks to Francesc Bofill and it was precisely in 1971 when the trial of the Basque defendants was taking place. Late one night, many black cars arrived with a lot of secrecy, and I understood that it was related to this trial. There was no love lost, of course, between Montserrat and the Franco regime. In fact, I suppose, if Montserrat had not been so famous, things would have been much worse for the defendants.

—Did you see Francesc again after your stay in Montserrat?

Peter, my friend at the time, and I met Francesc in London, because he had called us saying that he was planning to visit the city. We met and spent a few hours together. I remember it well, we went for a boat ride, I think, in Hyde Park, it was in the summer, and it must have almost certainly been in 1972. Yes, it couldn’t have been in 1973 because I remember that summer I spent in Hereford.

—Do you remember when the idea of ​​playing at the monastery came about?

I am pretty sure it was in London when we were in a boat on Regent’s Park and Francesc said he wanted to put on a concert to give a more contemporary feel to the monastery. Something with spiritual content. It’s a dim memory but it was something we discussed together in person, so it must have been then. He was dressed in jeans and was going to see «Straw Dogs» film, which has just come out in London, that evening.  I told him that it would be too violent for me and Peckinpah was an over-masculine misogynistic director. But Francesc always liked the extremes…. But maybe what really happened is now unknowable. I guess that while I was at The Manor, at some point they must have mentioned Montserrat’s name and I must have mentioned that I knew someone there and that’s how it all started, possibly. I didn’t really do anything special, just put everyone in touch. Yes, I really can’t remember and there’s no one we can ask now.

—Francesc claims that he received a letter from you, at the end of 1972, explaining Daevid’s interest in having a mystical experience in Montserrat.

Yes. I don’t know exactly when it was. But it was certainly after Gong had done his recording sessions, that was when I met them, and we talked about Montserrat. But I wouldn’t have suggested a concert unless I knew that Francesc was interested in the idea.

—What was the reaction of Daevid Allen and Gilly Smith when you told them they could play at the Monastery? Did they already know Montserrat before?

Well, of course I didn’t tell them they could play there, I told them they could try, to see if they were lucky enough to get permission to play. I knew that Francesc was a person who loved music and got things done (as well as being a charming, clever and inspiring person). I think any educated person knows about Montserrat. Spain of course was in a limbo as far as the rest of the world was concerned but I had always been interested in their Romanesque art and the remains of a brilliant culture that had suffered a lot of bad luck for a very long time and consequently, for outsiders, was only associated with sun, sand and sea, and not history.

—After all these years, have you kept in touch with Gong?

I saw Daevid, Gilly and Steve Hillage a couple of months ago and it was great, they are still magic on stage, although a bit too strong, you know how they are. Mike Howlett is a teacher in Brisbane. Pierre Moerlen, very sadly for me, died a few years ago and Didier is still around, I don’t really know what he does now.

—Francesc Bofill mentions in his memoirs your interest in Fulcanelli. Had you already read “Le Mistere des Catedrales” by then?

Yes, it was my bible! I still look at church carvings with an analytical eye. You can spot beautiful little signs everywhere.

—Was it your interest in Romanesque art that led you to visit Montserrat or was it just a coincidence? Did your visit have anything to do with the origins of the Art Bears’ Winter Songs inspired by Amiens Cathedral?

Yes. I had been to Amiens Cathedral on a number of occasions and had taken photos of the portico (I went there again in May last year). Chris was looking for a subject for the next Art Bears album, so I showed him a bunch of close-ups and said something like, “What do you think of this?” I was interested to know what these photos might suggest to him, as he always resorted to hard-line Marxism in many of his lyrics, but his reaction surprised me. He thought they were wonderful, and the result was, for me, one of his best works. It may be of interest to you, in case you don’t know, that the border on the cover of Winter Songs is full of alchemical symbolism, but no one has ever said anything about it or commented on the subject. Of course, I never said anything because I myself don’t really know about it… maybe that’s the reason!

HENRY COW Lindsay Cooper, Tim Hodgkinson, Fred Frith, (Sarah Greaves), Chris Cutler, Maggie Thomas, John Greaves) (Photo: Sula Goshen)

Publica La Web Sense Nom per cortesia de Juanjo Sánchez i Maggie Thomas.

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